Interview with Great Monk Jajae Manhyon
"The Great Monk Jajae Manhyon was born in Hampyong, Jeonnam Province in 1937. He
became a monk in Busan in 1960 (His Dharma name was Bubsung at that time.), and
served as Director of the Propagation Department and later as Executive Propagator of the
Administrative Headquarters of the Jogye Order of Korean Buddhism. He also served as
the Chief Monk of Yonhwasa in Seoul and as Dean of Haedong Buddhism College, He
visited various great enlightened masters extensively like Priestling Sudhana appearing in
the Avatamsaka Sutra, but later met with the Buddha personally by means of meditation of
reciting the Buddha's sacred name......"
This is part of the personal history of Great Monk Jajae Manhyon appearing on the cover
sheet of his book "The 21st Century Buddha's Message." The present writer had the
honour of having an interview with him at Hyonjisa in Chuncheon in mid-May who is
newly drawing great public attention through the media Dharma talks such as "the
Hyondae Buddhism Newspaper", "The Daehan Buddhism Newsaper", "The Buddhist
Television", etc. over the past several years. This interview contains his voice: he has
carried on his practice by dwelling in retirement disappearing after having led the
Administrative Headquarters of the Jogye Order, attending to Great Monk Chongdam. His
answers to my question, "Your view is so fresh and new. Isn't it more preferable to
establish a new Buddhist sect?"
Your Dharma talk is unprecedented indeed from the beginning, but it is particularly
impressive to hear that breaking through Hwadu and seeing the original nature is no
more than the beginning of practice.
I am a member of the orthodox Jogye Order. I became a Monk with Great Monk Sug-am
who was a great master of the precepts, even though his name has not been well-known.
He forbade us to eat even a dry minnow in the back yard of the temple. I attended on my
teacher for about ten years until he passed away. I became a disciple under Great Monk
Gyongbong of Geug-rak-am of Tongdosa, and kept investigating Hwadu 'what is this?'
deeply in a practicing cave in Jeolla Province.
Well, this is an important question. Since when have you had skepticism about Seon
of phrase investigation?
I will make it clear. I have felt so since a little time after breaking through Hwadu. What
is called, awakening to one's original nature was weak; I was not so satisfied. The reason
that I switched to meditation of reciting the sacred name of a Buddha, came from that
background.
Your original Dharma name was Bubsung, and your Dharma name has been changed
to a new one now when you are preaching the Buddha's Dharma.
I have had a great aspiration to become a better disciple of the Buddha. Esoteric
Buddhism, Vypashyana, and Southern Buddhism are taking root here, but practice was
difficult under the circumstances of the temple where the practice method that the Buddha
himself had taught, was regarded as non-Buddhism, and the Sutras were thought
unimportant. With the thought that breaking through Hwadu was no more than a
beginning, I alone have committed myself to meditation of chanting the sacred name of the
Buddha.
You had contributed your Dharma talks to 'the Daehan Buddhism Newspaper'
several years before your book was published. I wonder if there is any refutation
from the existing Buddhist circles.
Regrettably, there has been no answer. There is no one who has as wholeheartedly
practiced as I have done. It would not be so easy for anyone to make an opposite opinion
against mine because of the depth of my book.
I would like to ask you a question. As the viewpoint of Buddhism that Great Monk
Jajae Manhyon has is so different from existing Buddhism, isn't it a better idea to
establish a new Buddhist sect (juridical foundation)?
There is no reason that I should not establish a new Buddhist juridical foundation. I am
now considering. However, I make it clear at the same time that, in my opinion, the
Buddhist foundation, which is closer to true Buddhism of the Buddha and emphasizes
observation of precepts, is the Jogye Order.
I am sorry to ask you this question. In your book, it says that Great Monk Jajae
Manhyon is the final body of the Noble Disciple Ananda. Furthermore, according to
your practice diary, you mention that you have personally met with the Buddha. May
I trust that all thses descriptions are true as they appear in your book?
When I personally met with the Buddha, that was what the Buddha has spoken to me. I
cannot prove or show it to you because it is one of the secrets.
Actually, Great Monk Cheong-hwa who passed away some time ago had also spoken
of meditation of chanting the sacred name of a Buddha.
You are right. You have raised a very good question. However, his practice method was
the recitation contemplating the true nature of suchness which is a little different from
reciting the sacred name of the Buddha that I have mentioned. The recitation
contemplating the true nature of suchness is the way of chanting the pronoun of suchness,
regarding the original nature of all things, namely, suchness as Amitabha Buddha or
Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva. The method of my practice is to recite the sacred name of
the Buddha who abides in the Absolute Realm in Selflessness.
-Thank you very much for all the invaluable answers until now.
Jajae Manhyon 自 在 滿 顯
Born in Hampyong in Jeonnam Province in 1937.
Name in the family register : Lee Hyong-bum 李 炯 範
Became a monk in Busan in 1960.
Served as a Director and Executive Propagator of the Administrative Headquarters of
the Jogye Order of Korean Buddhism. His monk name then was Bubsung.
Served as Head Monk of Yonhwa Temple and Munsu Temple in Seoul.
Served as Dean of Haedong Buddhism College.
Received Honorary Doctorate in Philosophy from the Buddhist University of Mongolia
renowned for his Holiness Zanavajra.
Visited various great enlightened masters extensively like Priestling Sudhana appearing in
the Avatamsaka Sutra, and was enlightened.
Afterwards, entered samadhi by chanting the sacred name of the Buddha and personally
met with the Buddha.
The Buddha name 'San Hae Hye Jajae Tong Wang Buddha'
and the Bodhisattva name 'Manhyon' were conferred on him by the Buddha.
Confirmed a Buddha by Buddha the World-Honoured in 2000.
His book, "The 21st century Buddha's Message" published in May 2005 became the
best seller among the Buddhist books in Korea unprecedentedly for six consecutive months.
source /Culture of Seon(zen)
publication/Hyonjisa, Yongsan Buddhism
인터뷰
"1973년 전남 함평 태생. 1960년 부산에서 출가(당시 법명
법성)한 뒤 조계종 총무원에서 포교부장과 상임포교사 활동. 서
울 연화사 주지와 해동불교대학장 역임. <<화엄경>>의 선재동자
처럼 여러 신지식을 두루 참방하였으나 뒤에 염불삼매로 부처
님 친견....."
<<21세기 붓다의 메시지>> 책 날개에 보이는 자재 만현 스님
의 이력의 일부이다. 최근 몇 년 새 <현대불교신문> <대한
불교신문> 등과 불교TV 등 미디어를 토해 법문으로 새롭게
관심을 끌고 있는 만현 스님을 필자는 지난 5월 중순 춘천 현
지사에서 인터뷰를 했다. 인터뷰는 1970년대 청담 스님을 모시
고 총무원을 이끈 뒤 돌연 은거 수행해 온 그의 목소리를 담고
있다. "스님의 생각이 이토록 새로운데, 차라리 창종을 할
수도 있는 것이 아닌가?"라는 질문과 이에 대한 답변도 포함돼
있다.
스님의 법문은 가히 파천황으로 시종하지만, 화두 타파와 견성은
수행의 출발에 불과하다는 말씀이 특히 인상적이었습니다.
나는 정통 조계종 사람입니다. 크게 이름을 내지 않으셨지만
대단한 율사였던 석암 스님을 은사로 출가했지요. 석암 스님은
뒤뜰에서 멸치 한 마리를 먹는 것도 금기를 삼으셨던 분인데,
그 어른의 입적까지 10년을 시봉하였습니다. 통도사 극락암의
경봉 큰스님 문하에 들어가 '이뭣꼬를 붙들고 전라도의 토굴에
서 참구를 했습니다.
자, 중요한 질문입니다. 간화선에 대한 회의는 어느
때부터 들었습니까?
밝히지만, 화두 타파를 했던 초창기부터 그랬습니다. 견성이
란 것이 미약했고 크게 만족스럽지 않았습니다. 염불선으로 돌
아선 것도 그런 배경입니다.
본래 법명이 법성이었는데 세상에 나온 지금은 법명도 바꾸고
하실 말씀이 많을 것으로 보입니다.
저는 더 휼륭한 부처님의 제자가 되려는 원력이 컸습니다.
요즘은 밀교, 위빠사나, 남방 불교가 자리를 잡아가는 상황이지
만, 부처님이 직접 가르친 그런 수행법을 외도로 치고 경전을
가볍게 여기는 절 분위기에서는 수행이 어려웠습니다. 화두 타
파는 수행의 시작일 뿐이라는 생각에 나 혼자 염불선에 전념을
했습니다.
책을 펴내기 전 몇 해 전부터 <대한불교신문>에 연재도 하시고 하는데
지금의 불교계에서 이렇다 할 반론 등이 있는지 궁금합니다.
유감스럽게도 묵묵부답입니다. 어느 누구도..... 그많큼 불교
계의 공부가 안 돼있고 또 내 책의 깊이 때문에 손 쉬운 반대
의견 제시가 쉽지 않을 것입니다.
한 가지 묻겠습니다. 만현 스님의 불교관이 이처럼 현재의 불교와 많이
다른 상황이라면 창종도 생각 못해 볼 것이 아니겠습니다.
......... 장종을 못할 것도 없습니다. 고려 중입니다. 그러나 그
래도 부처님의 정법에 근접해 있고 계율에 신경 쓰려는 종단은
현재의 조계종이라는 저의 판단도 동시에 밝혀둡니다.
송구스런 질문입니다. 책에 보면 만현 스님이 아난 존자의 후신이라고 쓰
여 있습니다. 또 수행일지를 보면 부처님 친견을 했다는 말도 거듭 나옵니
다. 이런 말을 액면 그대로 믿어야 할까요?
제가 친견을 한 부처님의 말씀이 그러할 뿐입니다. 단 그것
은 밀장이기도 하니 여러분 앞에서 증명해 보일 수 없습
니다.
사실 얼마 전 입적하신 청화 스님께서도 염불선을 말했습니다.
그렇습니다. 매우 좋은 문제 제기였습니다. 그러나 제가 말하
는 칭명염불과는 조금 구분되는 '실상염불'이지요. 실상염불은
모든 것의 근본 자리 곧 진여(실상)를 아미타불이나 관세음보살
로 보고 그 실상의 대명사를 부르는 염불입니다. 저의 염불은
무아 속 절대계에 계시는 부처의 존호를 부르는 칭명염불입니
다.
-스님 지금까지 좋은 답변 고맙습니다.-
출처/ 선문화 2005년 6월호 발췌 38쪽~49쪽